Quiet in here....

[Paul Vigay]

Very quiet in here, and even more quiet over in argonet.acorn.misc, where
no one appeared to notice my cryptic little message the other day.

Anyway, in order to be a bit less cryptic, but still whisper to a small
audience, I thought I'd point out http://labs.orpheusnet.co.uk/ and wave a
finger at the news column.....

Paul

[Bill (Adopt)]

Post by Paul Vigay
Very quiet in here, and even more quiet over in argonet.acorn.misc, where
no one appeared to notice my cryptic little message the other day.

Huh! sniff...

We notice you didn't bother with argonet.acorn.assist,
where my plea for help with colour laser printing
remains, solitary, alone, unanswered, unloved, not
cherished, forlorn, forsaken, forgotten...... ;'))

(I'll place it here when I get time)

Post by Paul Vigay
Anyway, in order to be a bit less cryptic, but still whisper to a small
audience, I thought I'd point out http://labs.orpheusnet.co.uk/ and wave a
finger at the news column.....

What, not just /another/ blog to add to the millions!
Hidden from the harsh site of the World's gaze, the
BBC and Murdoch, (may his praises be sung to the camels)...

Although, come to think of it, the Almighty hisself needed
just one such - the tablets of stone lifted from the Mountain -
and look where all that has led over the generations.. :))

Perhaps He could join the force as a beta tester - or is
that something else that you've already arranged.. ;)) **

Bill ZFC
** maybe explains why Orpheus is generally so reliable!

[Paul Vigay]

We notice you didn't bother with argonet.acorn.assist, where my plea for
help with colour laser printing remains, solitary, alone, unanswered,
unloved, not cherished, forlorn, forsaken, forgotten...... ;'))

I did notice that one - although to be honest, I don't really have much
experience of HP printers. However, HP is one of the standards that a lot
of other printers adhere to, so I would imagine that it should work on RISC
OS ok, probably using the generic Laserjet 5 or 6 driver.
I've got an HP OfficeJet 6210 here, which works fine from the USB port on
the Iyonix - just plugged it in and Castle's 'pop-up' printer driver
recognised it straight away so I didn't have to do anything.

What, not just /another/ blog to add to the millions! Hidden from the
harsh site of the World's gaze, the BBC and Murdoch, (may his praises be
sung to the camels)...

I thought it would be a useful extra facility for Orpheus subscribers, and
something which would stand us aside[1] from 'normal' ISPs. Many people
don't have the time or skills to develop an entire website in HTML, so a
lot of people have their own blog on which they can just log in and post a
few thoughts or comments. The 'blog system' then does all the actual
technical stuff like managing the data and generating all the relevant
websites etc.

We can now offer a free blog to Orpheus customers, so if anyone wants their
own blog (with over 10 different colour schemes and styles to choose from),
then we can now offer to setup an 'ElectricType' account for anyone
(although initially I only need about 5 beta testers) who wants one.

It wasn't an advert for *my* blog, but more of a new service for Orpheus
customers. :-)

Paul
[1]So if any silly Americans with far too much money want to make me offers
in excess of $45 billion, I might be open to negotiation, as long as their
name isn't Bill.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Post by Bill (Adopt)
We notice you didn't bother with argonet.acorn.assist,
where my plea for help with colour laser printing
remains, solitary, alone, unanswered, unloved, not
cherished, forlorn, forsaken, forgotten...... ;'))

But not unread. I'd be interested in any answers too. I don't use a
printer that much and most of the ink - which costs a stupid amount - gets
wasted in cleaning cycles.

[Paul Vigay]

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
But not unread. I'd be interested in any answers too. I don't use a
printer that much and most of the ink - which costs a stupid amount -
gets wasted in cleaning cycles.

This is always the danger of bubble or ink jet printers. I never really
used my colour ink jet enough for it to be cost effective, as most of the
time I'd do about 5 or six pages and not use it for ages - then find the
ink had all dried up when I came to use it again.

Colour laser printers are much better, depending on the technology. I've
got a Xerox phaser solid ink printer here and it's very economical as there
is never any waste at all. You just have four hoppers in the top (a bit
like a coal-fired boiler) and you simply drop another ink refill in the top
before the last one runs out. Thus you don't even have a little bit left in
the bottom of a cartridge, so all ink is used and none is wasted and
there's no cartridge to dispose of.
The downside is that you have to leave the printer turned on 24/7 otherwise
the heating elements will cool down and it /will/ have to do a cleaning
cycle, which will cost around £10 in ink. However, in reality this is not a
problem because the printer has intelligent wakeup in it which means that
it 'learns' at what time you do printing, and then goes to sleep the rest
of the time, so is generally in stand-by mode when not being used. This is
totally silent and consumes little electricity. It will wake up
automatically when you print to it or press a button on the front.

The other type of colour laser printer is the 'traditional' toner based
one, such as Louie's big one for printing RISC OS Now magazine. That's also
a Xerox Phaser but uses four colour (CMYK) cartridges of toner. Again,
there's no problem with not using it for ages, because the toner lasts ages
without drying out (it's already powder) or going off. Ours has fixed life
toner cartridges, whereas on some of the cheaper printers you can shake
them up a bit and put them back in when they start running low - to squeeze
that extra bit of use out of them. However, on our printer, it simply tells
you to replace the toner when required and you can't do anything about it,
other than replace. Because we do high volume printing, we don't pay for
individual toners, instead paying a fixed quarterly charge which covers all
the consumables.

[Bill (Adopt)]

Post by Paul Vigay

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
But not unread. I'd be interested in any answers too. I don't use a
printer that much and most of the ink - which costs a stupid amount -
gets wasted in cleaning cycles.

This is always the danger of bubble or ink jet printers. I never really
used my colour ink jet enough for it to be cost effective, as most of the
time I'd do about 5 or six pages and not use it for ages - then find the
ink had all dried up when I came to use it again.
Colour laser printers are much better, depending on the technology. I've
got a Xerox phaser solid ink printer here and it's very economical as there
is never any waste at all. You just have four hoppers in the top (a bit
like a coal-fired boiler) and you simply drop another ink refill in the top
before the last one runs out. Thus you don't even have a little bit left in
the bottom of a cartridge, so all ink is used and none is wasted and
there's no cartridge to dispose of.
The downside is that you have to leave the printer turned on 24/7 otherwise
the heating elements will cool down and it /will/ have to do a cleaning
cycle, which will cost around £10 in ink. However, in reality this is not a
problem because the printer has intelligent wakeup in it which means that
it 'learns' at what time you do printing, and then goes to sleep the rest
of the time, so is generally in stand-by mode when not being used. This is
totally silent and consumes little electricity. It will wake up
automatically when you print to it or press a button on the front.
The other type of colour laser printer is the 'traditional' toner based
one, such as Louie's big one for printing RISC OS Now magazine. That's also
a Xerox Phaser but uses four colour (CMYK) cartridges of toner. Again,
there's no problem with not using it for ages, because the toner lasts ages
without drying out (it's already powder) or going off. Ours has fixed life
toner cartridges, whereas on some of the cheaper printers you can shake
them up a bit and put them back in when they start running low - to squeeze
that extra bit of use out of them. However, on our printer, it simply tells
you to replace the toner when required and you can't do anything about it,
other than replace. Because we do high volume printing, we don't pay for
individual toners, instead paying a fixed quarterly charge which covers all
the consumables.

OK.. thanks Paul. That's a helpful intro to colour laser.
(I've left it in for posterity rather than cutting for
convenience)...

The thing about the HP is that each cartridge not only
contains the toner, but the drum and it's assembly as
well. So far as I'm aware, everything is replaced when
the toner is changed. Saves a very large bill for some
hundreds of gbp not far up the line, as well as ensuring
excellent quality printing over the years.

My surprise recently is that the colour cartridges,
(toner and drum), are now at around 35.00gbp each, which
makes them considerably cheaper at around a third of the
price of the 90.00gbp to 110.00gbp which they used to be.

Even at the much higher price, the cost per A4 colour print
was still only around 0.005p to 0.01p. I believe much,
much cheaper than the comparable print from an Inkjet.

Ally this to the cost of the (still large and heavy)
HP printer that I was looking at in John Lewis turning
in at a bargain price of 99.00gbp for the base (inc three
colour and a fourth black starter toner suitable for around
1000/1500 A4 prints) - then it seems that these days there's
really no contest!

OK ..my RiscPC with RISC OS 4.02 prints out through it's
RISC OS driver and a Computer Concepts Turbo enhancer to
an HP LaserJet 5 ..just as you suggest. (It can, on rare
occasion, print out the odd map using the PC card with an
OEM HP Pc driver).

However, the LJ5 is only a b/w printer, with it's single
cartridge. I'm not sure that this would be enough to
tickle colour into place - unless the codes are automatically
presented to the printer. If so, then we're laughing with the
printer driver that I already use.

..so, just looking to see if there is a driver, possibly
without CC type thingies - but no doubt with one or two
of the other accelerators that Brian has tabs on - that
can easily drive a colour printer from my RISC OS 4.02?

..or any Risc PC short of replacing it with a 1700.00gbp
Apple with RISC OS on board to run everything that I
presently need?

(For me Iyonix, given that I would be using DVD Multi
facilities and Flight Sims, will be a positive dead end)!

..any, just a thought that someone might have a little
helpful knowledge...

At least the HP 2560 (?) colour LaserJet at 99.00gbp
would be a cheap replacement for a 12yr old HP LJ5,
with only a single 4000/8000 black cartridge to be
installed at their present cost of 35.00gbp...!

.hmmmmm <finks> ;))

Bill ZFC

[Michael Harding]

Post by Paul Vigay

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
But not unread. I'd be interested in any answers too. I don't
use a printer that much and most of the ink - which costs a
stupid amount - gets wasted in cleaning cycles.

[ . . . ]

Post by Paul Vigay
Colour laser printers are much better, depending on the
technology.

[ . . . ]

OK.. thanks Paul. That's a helpful intro to colour laser. (I've
left it in for posterity rather than cutting for convenience)...
The thing about the HP is that each cartridge not only contains
the toner, but the drum and it's assembly as well. So far as I'm
aware, everything is replaced when the toner is changed. Saves a
very large bill for some hundreds of gbp not far up the line, as
well as ensuring excellent quality printing over the years.
My surprise recently is that the colour cartridges, (toner and
drum), are now at around 35.00gbp each, which makes them
considerably cheaper at around a third of the price of the
90.00gbp to 110.00gbp which they used to be.

[ . . . ]

Have a look at www.proprint.co.uk to see about the feasibility of
refilling toner drums (with replacement chips available too).

It was spectacularly easy to refill an HP LJ5L for about 13 pounds and
I've got enough powder left over to refill it a second time. I'm not
sure about the printers with chips in them - but Jim of ProPrint would
talk you through it, he was most helpful - and furious that normal
refills are a rip-off. (My local refiller wanted 30 pounds.)

Michael Harding

[Bill (Adopt)]

Post by Michael Harding

Post by Paul Vigay

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
But not unread. I'd be interested in any answers too. I don't
use a printer that much and most of the ink - which costs a
stupid amount - gets wasted in cleaning cycles.

[ . . . ]

Post by Paul Vigay
Colour laser printers are much better, depending on the
technology.

[ . . . ]
Have a look at www.proprint.co.uk to see about the feasibility of
refilling toner drums (with replacement chips available too).
It was spectacularly easy to refill an HP LJ5L for about 13 pounds and
I've got enough powder left over to refill it a second time. I'm not
sure about the printers with chips in them - but Jim of ProPrint would
talk you through it, he was most helpful - and furious that normal
refills are a rip-off. (My local refiller wanted 30 pounds.)

Thanks, Michael. It's a significant point well worth
considering - at least once in the cycle - or twice,
if you've got powder left over to play with - ie that
any inquisitive household children haven't used to paint
tiger stripes over the furniture or the neighbour's cat! ;))

..but for HP Lasers it's not always a matter of
just refilling the cartridge with toner, though.
The PE drum is also contained within the cartridge.
All the business/office suppliers that I know always
check the drum - mostly re-engineering or replacing
that photo-electric drum as a matter of course. Mind,
not all re-engineering is the same.. ;))

Means that if you get a cartridge that produces a
regular 'shadow', repeat blip or whatever at any time
in it's 'life', then the supplier will replace the whole
unit for you by return - often for no charge even if the
unit's toner is almost used up!

Even then, at 30.00gbp (more so at 13.00gbp), the cost
of four laser cartridges will, sheet for sheet, work
out vastly cheaper than ink-jet refills/new cartridges.

It's still cheaper even when paying around 100.00gbp
for each of the four cartridges..

..so what are we two doing sitting here still printing
in black on white? (I mean, didn't even Gutenberg use
brown on white ..or was that just the 'refiller'
replacing the faded goose-fat/ochre with lard and
dung sweepings)?

..and thanks, useful suggestion.. :))

Bill ZFC

[Mr John FO Evans]

Post by Paul Vigay
This is always the danger of bubble or ink jet printers. I never really
used my colour ink jet enough for it to be cost effective, as most of the
time I'd do about 5 or six pages and not use it for ages - then find the
ink had all dried up when I came to use it again.
Colour laser printers are much better, depending on the technology. I've
got a Xerox phaser solid ink printer here and it's very economical as
there is never any waste at all.

..................... snip

Post by Paul Vigay
The other type of colour laser printer is the 'traditional' toner based
one, such as Louie's big one for printing RISC OS Now magazine. That's
also a Xerox Phaser but uses four colour (CMYK) cartridges of toner.
Again, there's no problem with not using it for ages, because the toner
lasts ages.

..................... snip

I also use a Xerox solid ink Phaser and more recently the same dry CMYK
toner printer as Paul - the main difference is that I print to the later
from Windows XP (for my sins). The XP driver is quirky and I have at least
two outstanding problems submitted to Xerox. The Xerox 860 WindowsXP solid
ink printer and driver is fine and the RISC OS driver also works well.

The most significant difference in cost/page between the two is that on
the 860 black ink is free!! (in later models it is only cheaper) and you
only pay for the coloured ink you use. Hence putting a small amount of
colour on a page has little effect on the cost.

However on the dry CMYK toner printer there is a big difference in the
cost of colour and B/W pages and even one colour pixel causes you to pay for
full colour. I think this is mainly due to the fact that the solid ink
printer has only one transfer drum and the other has separate drums for
C,Y,M and K. Also there are different payment methods which can affect the
pricing.

Apart from the 24/7 switch-on of the solid ink printers I would strongy
recommend them - the only possible rivals are the new HP high-speed low-cost
inkjets which I am currently investigating.

[Stuart]

Post by Bill (Adopt)
We notice you didn't bother with argonet.acorn.assist,
where my plea for help with colour laser printing
remains, solitary, alone, unanswered, unloved, not
cherished, forlorn, forsaken, forgotten...... ;'))
(I'll place it here when I get time)

Well, I guess you could try placing it in:

comp.periphs.printers

:-)

[Bill (Adopt)]

Post by Stuart

Post by Bill (Adopt)
We notice you didn't bother with argonet.acorn.assist,
where my plea for help with colour laser printing
remains, solitary, alone, unanswered, unloved, not
cherished, forlorn, forsaken, forgotten...... ;'))
(I'll place it here when I get time)

comp.periphs.printers
:-)

What a good idea! I've never been anywhere near that
group. Does it have 'he who has everything in stock'
on the lists? I do take it that there must be a whole
cohort of Acorn and RISC OS users resident there as
well. Could be very helpful.

I'll try that if there's no further knowledgeable
response hereabouts.

Thanks Stuart :))

I guess RISC OS has less and less to offer.. ;'))

Bill ZFC

[Stuart]

What a good idea! I've never been anywhere near that group. Does it
have 'he who has everything in stock' on the lists?

I hadn't noticed :-(

I do take it that there must be a whole cohort of Acorn and RISC OS
users resident there as well. Could be very helpful.

I hadn't noticed :-(

But there do seem to be some people who know about printers. I confess I
don't subscribe to a.a.assist so I don't know exactly what your question
was about but I've received good (and conficting - but such is the nature
of usenet) advice there.

I'll try that if there's no further knowledgeable
response hereabouts.

[Bill (Adopt)]

[..] re comp.periphs.printers...

Post by Stuart
But there do seem to be some people who know about printers. I confess I
don't subscribe to a.a.assist so I don't know exactly what your question
was about but I've received good (and conficting - but such is the nature
of usenet) advice there.

Sorry, Stuart ..I've just realised your question. In
short, my question(s) are:

Using a RiscPC and RISC OS 4.02 with a USB wired
HP Colour LaserJet printer ..( 99.00gbp at John Lewis)..

1. Does Jason's programming of the USBs on STD's
Unipod allow the USB HP Colour LaserJets to work?

2. If not (1), then would something like Maplins'
24.95gbp Parallel to USB converter wire be OK
to use between Risc PC and Laser?

3. Is there a generic HP colour driver available
for the Risc PC, (or do all HP drivers auto
identify colours that are present - ie similar
to the full scripting of Postscript)?

I think that about covers it... :))

Bill ZFC

[Stuart]

Post by Bill (Adopt)
Sorry, Stuart ..I've just realised your question. In

<SNIP>

And I'm sorry I made the suggestion without knowing the question :-(

Apart from (2) in the most general sense your questions are unlikely to be
answered.

When it comes to questions about "what does this flashing error light
sequence mean on my printer", "why does my printer not feed the paper
properly" or "which toner/ink refillers to stay clear of" then answers are
usually forthcoming.

Stuart

[Bill (Adopt)]

Post by Stuart

Post by Bill (Adopt)
Sorry, Stuart ..I've just realised your question. In

<SNIP>
And I'm sorry I made the suggestion without knowing the question :-(

Not at all.. Your comment was interesting and you
have introduced me to a new group. What else is
Usenet about ..(as you pointed out, accurate info
not always or necessarily being one of them)... :))

Post by Stuart
Apart from (2) in the most general sense your questions are unlikely to be
answered.

Perhaps there might be some in the csa groups who
would have just such an answer? I'll ask in that
area over the weekend. Meanwhile, let's see if
there are any in our cohort, (such as Ray), who
might have similar experience..

I've also other sources to hand ..but that means
visiting a couple of friends behind the backs of
their busy spouses - tomorrow - and/or a 40+ mile
ret visit to PC World, where there might be other
Members of the RISC OS Fraternity 'on duty'!

Post by Stuart
When it comes to questions about "what does this flashing error light

..um err yes ..precisely! How did you know? ;))

"Dear Aunty Marg,

The red light on my Unipod USB extinguishes
itself, when it's not flickering uselessly.

Is this important, or should I seek the help
of a medically certified Unipod technician?

'Opressed from Orpheus'"

Post by Stuart
sequence mean on my printer", "why does my printer not feed the paper
properly" or "which toner/ink refillers to stay clear of" then answers are
usually forthcoming.

Yes, I have acquired some of the flavour ..so your
comment and hints are indeed very useful. If they
are so for me, then they will also be so to others
reading.

Thanks, Stuart.. :))


Bill ZFC