Router failing to lock

[Mr John FO Evans]

I have just discovered that another user on my exchange has the same problem
on a PC that I have with RISCOS (if that difference matters).

When I switch on at busy times of the day the router goes through its normal
start up cycle until at the last moment the 'mail' light fails to
illuminate, 'wan' comes on as normal.

Is this possibly due to overload on the exchange?

The other user is over a mile from the exchange and I am quite near so that
doesn't seem to be relevant.

The usual switch off and on sometimes works but at other times I go away and
watch TV or dig the garden for a while!

John

PS would you report this to BT?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Post by Mr John FO Evans
I have just discovered that another user on my exchange has the same
problem on a PC that I have with RISCOS (if that difference matters).
When I switch on at busy times of the day the router goes through its
normal start up cycle until at the last moment the 'mail' light fails to
illuminate, 'wan' comes on as normal.
Is this possibly due to overload on the exchange?

I would imagine the ADSL carrier is buffered where it is fed to your line,
so should work regardless of other load.

Post by Mr John FO Evans
The other user is over a mile from the exchange and I am quite near so
that doesn't seem to be relevant.
The usual switch off and on sometimes works but at other times I go away
and watch TV or dig the garden for a while!
John
PS would you report this to BT?

Only if you directly get your service from BT which it looks like you
don't. Faults should be reported to your ISP who then pressure BT into
sorting it. ;-)

[Bill (Adopt)]

Post by Mr John FO Evans
I have just discovered that another user on my exchange has the same problem
on a PC that I have with RISCOS (if that difference matters).
When I switch on at busy times of the day the router goes through its normal
start up cycle until at the last moment the 'mail' light fails to
illuminate, 'wan' comes on as normal.
Is this possibly due to overload on the exchange?

..yes, it is! The network has to 'hunt' for yet
another permanent dsl connection to replace the
one you earlier 'broke' by powering your router
down.

Post by Mr John FO Evans
The other user is over a mile from the exchange and I am
quite near so that doesn't seem to be relevant.
The usual switch off and on sometimes works but at other
times I go away and
watch TV or dig the garden for a while!

Unless you're intent on saving a minimal amount of
energy, then you may not be using your router correctly.

DSL is supposed to an 'always on' connection, therefore
there is no need to treat your router as you might an
earlier steam driven modem.

Treat your router in the same fashion as you would a
VTR, DVD Recorder, terrestrial or satellite STBs etc
where timing information needs to be maintained.
Indeed, your BT 'phone lines are equally permanently
powered as indeed, if you have such, will be any
answer machine(s), fax modem(s), or digital telephones
that you have connected elsewhere in your house and
business..

Basically, once you have initially established your
connection, leave your router switched on, permanently.
The connection will remain established, as indeed will
your place in the dsl pipe and thereby your direct
connection to your IPs network. By all means cycle
your power-hungry, heat-sensitive pc on/off to save
energy as needed - but leave your router alone, for
it is that titchy little computer that is maintaining
and administering your 'always on' connection and
gateway to the stars.

My connection here, initially established somewhere
around March 2005, has remained permanently 'up and
running', without problem(*), throughout the months,
now years. Who first advised this? Paul ..who,
using not dissimilar connections, needs to remain
online 24/7/365.25 (and then some)!

Post by Mr John FO Evans
PS would you report this to BT?

There may be no need for Paul or anyone to report your
problems in accessing your connection, (node, place-in
-the-pipe or what you will), as it is you that is breaking
the 'always on' connection by continually powering down/up
your router.

BT can't resolve this problem - it lies in the myriad
connections of their (and our) virtual networking ..nor
as shown above, can Paul unless you remain permanently
online as intended for dsl connections.

Moral of the tale: leave your router 'permanently'
powered 'on'.


hh.. :))

Bill ZFC

(*) ..my connection was accidentally switched off by
BT at the exchange for a few hours on one occasion about
a year or more ago.

Accessing the operator, I asked what would have happened
if BT's power out had cut off any heart monitoring to
the Papworth Trust's Cardiac Care Team.

I received, for some days afterwards, a succession of
apologies from BT ..becoming more and more 'apologetic'
the 'higher' the individual in the increasingly rarified
atmosphere of BT's management organisation...

Apologies were, of course, smiling accepted - who could
do else? There has been no further break in the connection
since.. ;))

[Mr John FO Evans]

Post by Mr John FO Evans

Post by Mr John FO Evans
I have just discovered that another user on my exchange has the same

problem

Post by Mr John FO Evans
on a PC that I have with RISCOS (if that difference matters).
When I switch on at busy times of the day the router goes through its

normal

Post by Mr John FO Evans
start up cycle until at the last moment the 'mail' light fails to
illuminate, 'wan' comes on as normal.
Is this possibly due to overload on the exchange?

..yes, it is! The network has to 'hunt' for yet
another permanent dsl connection to replace the
one you earlier 'broke' by powering your router
down.

Post by Mr John FO Evans
The other user is over a mile from the exchange and I am
quite near so that doesn't seem to be relevant.
The usual switch off and on sometimes works but at other
times I go away and watch TV or dig the garden for a while!

Unless you're intent on saving a minimal amount of
energy, then you may not be using your router correctly.
DSL is supposed to an 'always on' connection, therefore
there is no need to treat your router as you might an
earlier steam driven modem.

Interestingly the other user leaves the router on permanently and has the
same problem of loss of lock as I sometimes do when switching mine on.

Talking it over we both feel that it is at busy times eg weekends that the
problem is worst.

John

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Post by Mr John FO Evans
Interestingly the other user leaves the router on permanently and has
the same problem of loss of lock as I sometimes do when switching mine
on.
Talking it over we both feel that it is at busy times eg weekends that
the problem is worst.

Mine is on 24/7 and I've only known about a lost connection twice in some
three plus years. On the first occasion I contacted Pipex who were very
helpful and established it was a BT fault, which was cleared later that
day. On the second occasion the entire street had lost its phone lines so
required no action on my part other than cursing. ;-)
When I was using Win98 and a my PC card, things would sometimes stop
working - but the ASDL signal light was still on. Re-booting the router
solved this. But at all times when doing this the ASDL light came on
promptly. Since I now use a proper PC instead of the PC card (where
needed) I've not had to reboot the router. Of course like all these things
I'm sure it varies by area.

[Russell Hafter News]

Post by Dave Plowman (News)

Post by Mr John FO Evans
Interestingly the other user leaves the router on
permanently and has the same problem of loss of lock as
I sometimes do when switching mine on.
Talking it over we both feel that it is at busy times
eg weekends that the problem is worst.

Mine is on 24/7 and I've only known about a lost
connection twice in some three plus years.

I wish I were so lucky!

I have only had ADSL for 18 months (it has not even been
available here for 2 years yet), and I have lost count of
the number of times I have had to reboot the router.

One evening a couple of months ago it was something like 5
times in 2 hours; the longest it has stayed connected is, I
would think, a couple of months, no more.

However, here we are pretty much at the furthest end of the
wires from the exchange and I hate to think of the condition
of some of those wires and connections. Twoyears ago there
was no phone for 10 days. When BT finally sent some to look
at it, the engineer found the connector for all the
surrounding houses in the stream and my wire was the one
that had corroded.

A month ago, next doors phone went. It turned out that when
BT had completely rewired the connection into the house five
years previously, the 'engineer' who had done that job had
used indoor cable from the extrnal junction box at the top
of the gable-end down to the front door of the house and the
master socket. Movement of this wire against the stonework
of the house in the gales (routine here) had worn through
both inner and outer insulation, and was working its way
through the actual wire...

[Bill (Adopt)]

[..]

Post by Mr John FO Evans

Post by Bill (Adopt)
DSL is supposed to an 'always on' connection, therefore
there is no need to...

Interestingly the other user leaves the router on permanently and has the
same problem of loss of lock as I sometimes do when switching
mine on.
Talking it over we both feel that it is at busy times eg
weekends that the
problem is worst.

Hi John.. :))

As this is the case it would appear that your dsl connection
has nothing to do with powering your router on, nor the loss
of that connection in powering 'off', I would be inclined to
approach BT yourself and give the bones of the problem; cite
your friend as additional backup...

(Mind ..test your router as 'permanently on' for 24/48 hours
to see if the problem still exists for you and your setup.
Another option might be to give Paul a ring, (24/7 - I double
dare you!).. and ask him to go through your router and 'puter
network setup with you - just to make certain that there's
nothing awry. It's all too easy to misaddress something)...

As to contacting BT, it's a bit of a pain unless, like me,
you pretend senility and wait through the many options of
BT 0800 800 150, or whatever it is, until you get to the
charmingly chained human, snarling hungrily if demurely at
the other end! :))

It could be that you have a local exchange fault ..something
in the wired boxes in your neighbourhood. It was one of these
that was 'tripped' by my 'engineer's fault' as he went about
the business of tracing another...

At the very least BT will test the line for you - and despite
occasional comments to the contrary, are usually only too happy
to assist with a backup engineering visit to the local box
of tricks ..and to you, if necessary!

It's true that your router (the modem is used in the initial
connection), automatically powers up and down by the micro-
second according to use - whilst keeping an 'eye' on your
commands and watching/checking anything that comes in - but
this should be with your route established and not formally
disconnected.

Assuming, (dare I ?!), that your friend is using a differing
platform and, possibly, a differing ISP, then you have added
weight in presenting the argument that it's more likely a
local connection fault - easily (hehe!) fixed at the exchange.
(Ask your friend if you have his/her agreement to refer their
number at the same time, with your own - adding their similar
problem to the nub of yours).

All I can presently think of... hope helps and good luck :))

Bill ZFC

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Post by Bill (Adopt)
As this is the case it would appear that your dsl connection
has nothing to do with powering your router on, nor the loss
of that connection in powering 'off', I would be inclined to
approach BT yourself and give the bones of the problem; cite
your friend as additional backup...

Trust me - there's no point in approaching BT directly unless they are
your ISP. Unless your phone line is down too.

[Bill (Adopt)]

Post by Dave Plowman (News)

Post by Bill (Adopt)
As this is the case it would appear that your dsl connection
has nothing to do with powering your router on, nor the loss
of that connection in powering 'off', I would be inclined to
approach BT yourself and give the bones of the problem; cite
your friend as additional backup...

Trust me - there's no point in approaching BT directly unless they are
your ISP. Unless your phone line is down too.

You sure! ;))

That might be your experience, Dave, but it certainly
hassn't been mine. Nor, for that matter, has it been
my experience over many years...

BT have always been only too happy to resolve issues
- even when the network in use wasn't strictly speaking
anything to do with them ..(re an incident in 1981
involving the fore-bear of C&W when they sorted a
networking fault). This, by the bye, was resolved by
the regional manager for the South of England, one
Christmas Eve, when he was the only manager around at
the time! (He must have been a dedicated individual)!

More recently, of course, a BT engineer within three
hours to repair the fault detailed a little earlier
in the discussion - and a couple of rapid home visits
to sort problems emanating from their box! (The
local BT engineer also sorted an additional house
wiring fault that was not the responsibility of BT
for the mere price of mug of tea and a chin-wag about
RISC OS vv Microsoft PCs). ;))

I don't think, around here, that I'm unusual in this
sort of attention. It might, of course, just be a
matter of locality, in my case in the East of England
..and over the South East.

I've even been passed over to BT's web design base and,
with the description of RISC OS and the various browsers
available for the platform, been questioned closely as
to the workings of their BT site with RISC OS etc -
resulting in a complete site revamp which now enables
even !Fresco to work with nary a glitch!

So BT, in my experience, does listen and act upon that
which it hears..

Not to say that BT is perfect ..nor that you and/or
Paul haven't found them to be an absolute pain. I just
wonder why the marked difference between the areas?

I'll still stick with my advice to John which is,
basically, to pretend that he needs support and wait
until the freephone 0800 BT Shop number ceases it's
choice perambulations and latches in to a real human
being. They, at least, are a little easier to deal
with - an usually very approachable...

..and they will move ..it's in their interest to do
so as it's nothing to do with the ISP, but to do with
the network provision that is providing BT with a very
large proportion of it's substantial (business) income.

..anyway.. ;'))

Bill ZFC

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Post by Bill (Adopt)

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Trust me - there's no point in approaching BT directly unless they are
your ISP. Unless your phone line is down too.

You sure! ;))
That might be your experience, Dave, but it certainly
hassn't been mine. Nor, for that matter, has it been
my experience over many years...

It was exactly mine when my ASDL signal disappeared on that first time. I
contacted BT direct and they told me it was nothing to do with them and to
contact my ISP - which I did. And after tests they found it *was* down to
BT. It makes sense if you think about it - why should they answer consumer
questions from what amounts to a third party?
BTW, the same has happened to a couple of pals. Could be a London thing,
but I doubt it.

[Dr Peter Young]

Post by Dave Plowman (News)

Post by Bill (Adopt)

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Trust me - there's no point in approaching BT directly unless they are
your ISP. Unless your phone line is down too.

You sure! ;))
That might be your experience, Dave, but it certainly
hassn't been mine. Nor, for that matter, has it been
my experience over many years...

It was exactly mine when my ASDL signal disappeared on that first time. I
contacted BT direct and they told me it was nothing to do with them and to
contact my ISP - which I did. And after tests they found it *was* down to
BT. It makes sense if you think about it - why should they answer consumer
questions from what amounts to a third party?
BTW, the same has happened to a couple of pals. Could be a London thing,

Not unless London includes Cheltenham :-(

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
but I doubt it.

Me too.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Post by Dr Peter Young

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
It was exactly mine when my ASDL signal disappeared on that first
time. I contacted BT direct and they told me it was nothing to do with
them and to contact my ISP - which I did. And after tests they found
it *was* down to BT. It makes sense if you think about it - why should
they answer consumer questions from what amounts to a third party?
BTW, the same has happened to a couple of pals. Could be a London thing,

Not unless London includes Cheltenham :-(

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
but I doubt it.

Me too.

And I'm not having a go at BT. They're not state run anymore and are
entitled to act like any other competing company. I can just imagine Talk
Talk helping out with a problem with Pipex. Or more can't imagine Talk
Talk helping with *anything*. ;-)

[Alan Griffin]

Post by Bill (Adopt)
Basically, once you have initially established your
connection, leave your router switched on, permanently.

I do this. But the day after I installed it, it failed, and would
not connect to the internet. After trying for ages, I switched it off and
on again, and after booting up it worked perfectly.

We get frequent power cuts here, and there are often half second
breaks in the power. I found that it is these which kill the router. If I
find I can't access the internet, I switch it off and on again, and so
far it has always worked immediately.

Alan Griffin